Modifications in the Electrified Age, as used cars depreciate...

"BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast." (boxerfanatic)
02/16/2020 at 20:26 • Filed to: Hybrid, modifications, Cadillac ELR, BMW i8, future classics

I have been long wanting an affordable i8, because in my use case, a PHEV is the best of both electric drive for short range, and stop-&-go traffic, and gas generation and cruise for range in the wide expanses of the Midwest, with gas stations far more common than charging stations.

i8s are depreciating, but still quite a bit of money for a work-a-day wage earner.

Cadillac ELR is however, half the i8's price when new, and way less than that now.

But ELR is commonly derided for being slow, and far more economy minded than the Converj-based looks suggest, much like i8's criticism of lower power , compared to it’s Vision Dynamics concept looks and 6-figure pricetag, but it’s real-world performance is actually good, just not supercar-good .

The question is: can ELR be modified now that it may be more affordable as a used car, than when it was quite significantly overpriced.

For instance, can the 2016 ELR, with it’s updates over the previous years... be updated with the better Voltec2 drivetrain, and even perhaps add a Chevy Bolt electric axle to the REAR axle of the ELR for AWD and torque vectoring between the front and rear axles.

Arguably the car should have been built that way... but it wasn’t.

And nobody else seems to be chomping at the bit to build something affordable in Parallel/Series Plug-In Hybrid performance and high-style segment, either.

But is this a case where the system is too integrated and complex to modify, and thus relegate the issue to begging, waiting, and being disappointed that no manufactures will do it?

Or will there be options to adapt things that the manufacturers didn’t do, to make something better after the fact?

DISCUSSION (17)

Chariotoflove > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
02/16/2020 at 21:17

I’m not getting enthusiastic about a work-a-day salary and digging into the guts of a luxury PHEV drivetrain. Why not just get one stock? I hear they are a good value as is, and not dog slow.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
02/16/2020 at 21:48

Isn’t it a Volt with better leather? I guess I hadn’t really thought about whether they were coming into “great buy” territory.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
02/16/2020 at 22:18

What you're asking about what be an absolutely stupid amount of money and time, and you would probably never get a perfectly seamless integration. Don't bother.

phenotyp > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
02/16/2020 at 22:22

I’ve had similar thoughts for years, and was reminded of them just last week when I saw one. Except for the grille, I always thought these were decent-looking (in black, anyway), and had potential after the inevitable supersonic depreciation.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > Chariotoflove
02/16/2020 at 22:59

Perhaps. and stock is probably fine, but ELR is still Voltec 1, not the improved Voltec 2 from the updated Volt, which has now been also cancelled.

Since all the EV players seem to be upgrading their cars at the OE level by adding electric motors, and everything seems like it is modular and software-integrated, it kind of raises the question about adding another motor to this car.

Basically the same as Tesla does, and GM is proposing to offer with the Hummer electric truck... more power option being an upgrade to more electric motor units.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish
02/16/2020 at 23:05

Don’t know about ‘ great buy’, but they are high-20s, low 30K price range, and one of the ONLY used PHEV options on the market.

Volt is more economy oriented, and not a coupe. BMW i8 is twice the price, when new, and still now as used, but also more than 100 hp and combined torque above the Voltec system.

i3 is a BEV econobox with a 33hp range extender that was optional. Much further removed from any performance possibility.

$30K for a great looking sport coupe PHEV is a whole lot better than it’s initial 75-80K price point, even for people like me who tend to prefer other brands over GM.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > AMGtech - now with more recalls!
02/16/2020 at 23:12

That doesn’t bode particularly well for the future of automotive performance modification in the new electrified era.

What is going to become of SEMA member companies in the upcoming decades?

Cars are only going to get more complex and more integrated.

If people can’t, or won’t modify due to prohibitive factors... then we all rely solely on OE manufacturers to get everything right first time for as many people as possible, which they’ve shown themselves to not be all that good at.

Chariotoflove > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
02/16/2020 at 23:39

Well definitely post in detail about it if you go that route. It would be fascinating to see how easily such an upgrade can plug in.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
02/17/2020 at 00:05

It’s interesting to ponder WHY they sold so few of the darn things..

BaconSandwich is tasty. > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
02/17/2020 at 10:24

How much are used ELRs going for these days?

Edit: never mind. Saw your post below.

random001 > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
02/17/2020 at 11:18

The i3 smokes this thing.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish
02/17/2020 at 12:14

I remember when they came out, and they had Neil McDonough doing ads for the car... all about patriotism, and a new American Cadillac that was looking toward the future with new hybrid technology... and it looked fantastic.

Until people looked into it further.

1: Heavier, and thus not quite as efficient as Volt.

2: FWD only, like the Volt, not RWD like CTS coupe, or even AWD.

3: 75-freaking-grand… wait, WHAT???

And Volt costs HOW much less for the same drivetrain?

BMW M3 or M4 at the time costs how much, and was how much faster?

They killed their own hype by under-delivering and over-charging on sticker price, regardless of tax incentives.

It didn’t fail on first glance, it failed on second look.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > random001
02/17/2020 at 12:16

until the battery is depleted, and it is reduced to 33 horsepower from the range extender.

random001 > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
02/17/2020 at 12:38

If that happens, you’re doing it wrong...

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
02/17/2020 at 12:46

The local dealer had one for YEARS sitting next to the entrance... certainly set the impression it was a museum piece, not something with high demand.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > random001
02/17/2020 at 13:12

What, like driving long highway distances in rural areas that are longer than the battery’s range and the ability for a mere 33hp to keep it charged?

Driving in the cold? Driving it with people or cargo aboard?

I went shopping this weekend that would have put an i3 past it’s range, and possibly past the range extender’s ability to supplement that range in combined mode due to cargo, cold, and distance combined... and there are no chargers between here and there.

BEVs work fine in the city. i3's little range extender can get the car a bit further when working in tandem, but it has the same inherent limitations in rural areas that affect Bolt, Leaf, and Tesla, especially now that i3 is no longer sold with a range extender.

ELR/Volt and i8 are not similarly limited, and can more effectively recharge themselves on gas power, because the gas engine has enough power to drive the car indefinitely with refueling, and regen-charge in the process.

Malibu Hybrid has a similar Voltec hybrid system as Volt/ELR but without the plug-in bit, and solely relies on charging the batteries with on-board generation, but it still uses a true Parallel/Series Voltec2 d rivetrain, not just a little bit of electric supplement to a traditional multi-ratio gearbox behind the ICE.

Between All-electric BEV and traditional all-fuel ICE, there are varying degrees, and i3 definitely skews much closer to the BEV side. Mild-hybrids skew toward the ICE side. these parallel-series multi-mode hybrids that are usually PHEVs are more of a true middle-ground.

random001 > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
02/17/2020 at 17:53

I do fine driving long distances. Even in the winter, with HSOC on, I'll lose about 6% battery an hour, call it 10 and you can still drive 7+ hours before you're really stuck.